Two sequels, one Oscar-winning Hollywood remake, and six-and-a-half years later, Alan Mak and Felix Chong are still very much known as ‘the guys behind Infernal Affairs’. With their co-directed new movie Overheard about to hit cinemas, the pair tell Edmund Lee why they've had enough of murders and car chases... almost. Portraits by Calvin Sit.

See also: Louis Koo interview

Your Infernal Affairs trilogy was an instant classic of Hong Kong cinema. Looking back, how has that shaped your career?
Alan Mak: There are two sides to this. One side is brilliant: it built a name for us, for having interesting scripts, responsible budget management, wonderful box office results, and good working relationships with the movie stars. These have all been very helpful to our subsequent productions. Another side of the coin, though, really sucks. Whenever we start a new project, the investors always want us to make another Infernal Affairs, like Infernal Affairs IV, V and VI, etc. But it’s simply impossible. Even when these investors take a step back, they still want us to make a cop/crime drama at least, as it’s their safest bet. Over the years, we’ve had to give up on a lot of projects, mostly romances and family dramas. In order for us to tell a love story, sometimes we can only do that through a thriller.

Martin Scorsese remade Infernal Affairs into The Departed, which was also hugely acclaimed. What did you think about that?
Felix Chong: I’ve read quite a few American detective novels myself, and I note that the common police officers [in those stories] are all motherfuckers by default. [Laughs.] However, the policemen in Hollywood films are depicted rather differently; even if they’re sometimes behaving like bastards, they’re inevitably heroic at heart. What’s interesting in The Departed is the fact that everyone is a motherfucker. [Laughs.] If I were an American audience, I might find it quite… realistic, and possibly a very pleasant movie experience.

Speaking of cops, your new film, Overheard features quite a few good cops turned bad. Is there a message that you want to bring out with the film?
FC: At first, we wanted the film to address the issues of greed and corruption. But as we went along the filming, we gradually realised that we’re actually talking about principles. Many people have lost their dreams nowadays. Of course, this may be down to many things, like the need to pay the rent and the phone and electricity bills. I think the main message that we’re trying to get across is that you can’t dump your dreams just like that, even when you’re taking care of those other things.

Where did you get the idea for this movie?
AM: The movie’s idea came from…

FC: Pacific Coffee. [Laughs.]

AM: That’s right. In 2007, we’d just established our own production house, and were looking for investment for several projects. All of them were turned down due to various reasons, and we were a bit upset. One day, the two of us were having a chat in a coffee shop – it was when the Hang Sang Index was at its historical height, at 32,000. We heard a lot of chatters around us, from every table in the coffee shop, and all their conversations were like: “Have you bought any shares today?” “How much profit have you made?” We felt weird at the time, as it seemed that all the people were connected to the stock market in some ways. The story of Overheard started from there.

During the conceptualisation, were you influenced by other wiretapping movies, such as Francis Ford Coppola’s The Conversation, or The Lives of Others?
FC: There aren’t many others apart from these. What else is there? You’re not going to include Top Secret!, right? [Laughs.] We’re not really influenced by any specific film, because it all started with a flash of inspiration. Upon reflection, perhaps we’re hoping to imitate the form of expression in Michael Mann’s The Insider. It’s all talk and talk from beginning to end, but the tension is really strong. Even if you crash ten cars [in a film], you don’t get as scary a scene as that golf court scene in The Insider.

Tell me something special about your new film.
AM: Overheard is actually quite different from the cop/crime thrillers that we’ve been making. In our previous movies, you could see some very brave police officers and some very serious crimes taking place. You see murders, robberies, drug trafficking: something that you’ll instantly identify as crimes. What’s different this time is that we’re dealing with commercial crimes, like faking commercial records and illegal dealing within a company. These are all invisible to the eye, but the amount of money involved is great – much, much greater than robberies, actually.

Commercial crimes don’t seem like the most exciting of topics to make a film on.
AM: First, I don’t feel that commercial crimes are that non-dramatic. It’s only that we haven’t tackled the topic often in the past, because we wanted robberies, we wanted drug trafficking, we wanted murders, so that we could include some exciting action sequences in a film. Naturally, it’s much easier to visualize it when there’re car chases and blazing guns. Having said that, there’re aspects of commercial crimes that, to me, are both dramatic and exciting.

So, are there any car chases or murders in Overheard?
AM: There are. [All burst into laughter.]

That’s quite a feat on your part.
AM: Yes, it’s doable. [Laughs.]

What was the most memorable part of the making of this film?
FC: I think it was the pre-production. We had the script finished in 2007, but we had to wait until the end of 2008 to start the shoot. One reason was that we couldn’t find an investor. They all said, “Oh well, your script is great, but we’re not investing.” I was particularly impressed by the words of one of them, who told us, “Your story is all good. However, you see, the Hang Sang Index is at 32,000 right now; and if the Index is at 12,000 by the end of your shoot, who’s going to give a damn about your movie?” After hearing this, we just packed up and left. [Laughs.]

After going through all that, you must be relieved to see how sellable the film looks right now. I notice the press materials boast that the film is ‘a precious opportunity to bring together the talents of Protégé and Infernal Affairs’.
FC: There’s no exaggeration in saying that, as long as you’re [only] referring to the cast and crew. If you like, you can also say this film consists of the creators of Infernal Affairs, plus Protégé, plus Confession of Pain, plus Initial D, plus One Nite in Mongkok, plus C'est la vie, mon chéri, plus… [Laughs.] It doesn’t mean much really.

AM: That said, thinking back, I must say that the collaboration has been excellent. We all knew each other inside out. And Derek Yee is a really good producer, in the sense that he ensured we had the money, and gave us complete freedom in the creative process.

How did your cooperation with Yee begin?
FC: It was a really weird encounter.

AM: It was quite unforgettable.

FC: Originally, we were only approaching him to get his advice on censorship issues. He gave us some advice; we adopted them and amended the script, and we still struggled to find an investor. He learnt about this, and – since he thought that this story is one that deserves to be made into a film – he promised to find us the budget. At the end, not only had he found the money, he’s also found us the actors. He’s done all the preparations that we hate to do [by ourselves], so that we can put our focus on the creative part.

You mention that you approached Derek Yee for advice on censorship issues. But is he really the best person to ask? I mean, he didn’t manage to get his own film Shinjuku Incident a Mainland release.
[All laugh.]
AM: You’re absolutely right.

FC: When Shinjuku Incident was released [in Hong Kong, but rejected on the Mainland], I also asked myself: have we…

AM: Fucked up. [Laughs.]

FC: Yeah, have we fucked up…? It’s actually quite simple: when Yee made a film on [controversial] topics like that, he shouldn’t have wished for a mainland release. I think there might also be some bad decision making in their production process… But then, if you look back at Yee’s previous films, like Protégé and One Nite in Mongkok, you can see that he does have some insightful understanding into the whole censorship system.

Your previous film, Lady Cop & Papa Crook, has also encountered a lot of troubles with the Mainland censor, as you had to alter the story and reshoot a few times, which resulted in months of delay before its release. Have you learned anything from that time?
FC: We have to prepare better. Last time, we thought we’d made everything clear, but it turned out we still had to make it clearer. Derek Yee also helped us to make clear the concepts this time.

Can you tell me about your next project?
AM: We’re going to do something different. Felix is going to start shooting a black comedy this month, for which I’ll act as the producer. As we’re only looking at the Hong Kong and overseas market [and not the Mainland one], we have much greater degree of freedom this time around. It’s a triad story that may be funnier, and much more absurd, than what you usually see.

Your follow-up to Infernal Affairs, Confession of Pain, is also set for a Hollywood remake. Any news on that front?
AM: I’ve also heard this rumour, but nothing seems to have happened yet.

FC: I think they’ve acquired the remake rights, but haven’t begun with a production. You see, the thing about The Departed is that, at the time, Scorsese had just had two consecutive box office failures in Gangs of New York and The Aviator. That’s probably why he had to repay what he owed with that movie contract, and that’s why they could get such a big-name director on the project. At this date and time, I don’t think it’s very realistic to invite Scorsese to remake [Confession of Pain]…

AM: And he probably won’t agree to it. If he’s to remake another film by us, he’s going to become one of our boys. [All laugh.]

FC: The closest we may get is a formerly famous director, who’s had some box office failures in recent times. But there don’t seem to be many right now… [Pauses to think.] Well, let’s see if Bryan Singer will be considered later on. After all, he’s just tanked with Valkyrie.

Overheard opens Thursday 30.
 

See also: Louis Koo interview