Such as The House at the End of the World series for Italian Vogue?
Yes. It was a thing I was trying to say. Look at it. Destroyed houses and these young women in couture. That was the last editorial I ever did. It looked like a hurricane had hit the house while these women are standing around wearing insanely beautiful couture gowns, and it was on the newsstands exactly the same time as Hurricane Katrina hit. It was getting all these complaints saying I had exploited a tragedy, but I shot it months before Katrina.

But the timing…
The timing, yes, was very strange, because I was thinking about hurricanes at that time. My mother lived in Hurricane Alley in Florida. Global warming was on everybody’s mind and I was reflecting that. But there is nothing wrong with fashion design. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s adornment. Adornment has been around since there has been civilization. The Incas, the Egyptians… they made distinguishing oneself with adornment into an art form.

And yet you were beginning to question the art of fashion photography?
I was burned out. I just couldn’t work in that world anymore. First of all, I was growing up; my thoughts were changing and growing, just like everybody else’s, of course, but... I didn’t want to be in this celebrity service industry anymore, even though I was using it creatively. It turned into a nightmare, and I let it turn into nightmare because I couldn’t say no. I was a complete workaholic.

Psychologically, why were you a workaholic?
Partially, I believe, because I never finished high school and I always… well, my mom warned me, in a loving way, that I was going be a bum if I didn’t graduate. It’s a reasonable fear for her to have, right? But she didn’t have a crystal ball. And I didn’t have a crystal ball. I mean, what if she was right? So I said yes to everything.

And it’s true that manic phases can produce amazing bursts of creativity.
[Knowing laugh] Yeah, they do… up to a point. And then you can get psychotic. You can go delusional. It’s a type of psychosis. You become delusional to the point where you’re in danger. People call it ‘the gift’ and it is, I suppose; I wouldn’t change anything in my life. But it bothers me when people in Los Angeles say, ‘I’m bipolar, I’m OCD, I’m ADD.’ I’m, like, ‘you’re not bipolar, you’re moody.’ Bipolar is a real thing; it’s not a mood swing. Yet being depressed is a real thing, a human thing. If you lose your job then you should feel depressed. Anyone can suffer depression. Lincoln had melancholy. His depression informed his Presidency and how he made those incredible decisions. Through those dark sufferings he gained empathy for humanity.

So what attracts you to religious ecstasy?
[Another laugh]… Well, my last name means ‘the church’. I’ve been to all kinds of churches. I’ve studied all religions. I love philosophy and theology. Right now I’m reading a lot about Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism. There is so much in the Dao that is easily akin to early Christianity, as in the teachings of Jesus, not the religious incorporation of the last two thousand years. ‘The kingdom of heaven is within you’ - that can be found in Daoism. Jesus used nature analogies, just as the Dao uses harmony and flow. I’m fascinated by this.

Do you believe in a personal immortality?
[Pause] Who knows? I feel there is something after death; I’m thoroughly convinced of that. It’s not just a physical plain we live on. That’s my belief. What exactly happens afterwards? No one knows. That’s what faith is. Nobody has come back to tell us. But I think it would be very strange if we did know all the answers, like if somebody from CNN was reporting live from Hell, you know? The mystery is the key.

Are you less afraid of death as you get older?
I’m not afraid of death at all. I’ve outlived so many of my friends. Remember, I never thought I’d see 24. When I was 34 I finally saw that I was going to be here a little while longer.

Are you a materialist?
I’m not an anti-materialist. I have respect for material things, but I don’t have any ‘want’. I don’t over-value objects either. I think my perspective is balanced. But it was a real shock when I started making real money. One of the first things I did, from advice, was to put money into stocks, and it was just numbers. What the hell is this? I called my broker, take my money out, it was a couple of hundred thousand dollars, and instead I bought three Andy Warhols and started collecting Keith Haring. Money brought me the freedom not to worry about myself or my staff. I know what it feels like to worry about every bill. I’ve been through that. I’ve traded debt for photographs. I keep money simple. I also knew that art was better than stocks. But luckily I’ve never had to sell anything. And anyway, art
is more beautiful than a car. Art transcends.

You won’t go back to Vanity Fair again?
Oh god, no. That part of my life is done. I did shoot Lady Gaga for her first cover of Rolling Stone because we’ve been friends, but I’ve quit. I don’t have the time to do it anymore. Time is the most valuable commodity to me now. We don’t have infinity. If I was asked to do something creative and fun, and if I had time, then yes, I’d do it, but I don’t do editorials for Vogue or Vanity Fair anymore. It’s all done. I don’t live by those rules anymore.

Do you know where you’re going?
You have to be open and let life lead you. I’ve been pretty intuitive for most of my life.

And you’re happy to get off the merry-go-round?
Well, it wasn’t a struggle for me to leave. I didn’t have a choice. But I could never imagine doing now what I was doing back in 2005. It was great times, don’t get me wrong, and I stand by my work, well, most of it [laughs], but my God, I just knew in my heart I had to stop.

I bet the magazines still call you for work.
People call me to do Justin Bieber! And there’s no way! I’m a grown man. I’m not interested in Justin Bieber. A 22-year old photographer will be excited about that, and so they should be, but not for me. I don’t want to take those jobs if my heart isn’t in it. Why take a job when I’m not excited about it? I would be lying to myself.

Young photographers are mimicking you now.
That’s great. I’m not talking about them or myself here, but appropriation does bother me. In the art world, appropriation, an idea, often spills over into fashion and editorial creation. The art world always moves on, but the fashion world has become standard. You open Vogue and you see people just knocking it off. I have some issues with magazines using unknown photographers’ work and appropriating them for fashion spreads. In America, the written word is so protected against plagiarism, but imagery and visuals have no value at all. Yet there is value in originality.

Yes, but appropriation of visual style is more difficult to pin down than the written word.
No, let me tell you, appropriation is now the normal thing. Nobody questions it. But it’s just stealing. What the fuck does that say to young talent coming through? That you can just steal Helmut Newton? Is that the message?

Do you watch the news?
Whenever I come back to the States, I see the news channels at the airport. It’s more graphics, more flashes, they’re selling fear, selling anxiety... It’s not doing anyone any good, all this horror entertainment, with all these opinions feeding off information. I’m not saying one should be ignorant and not know what’s going on in the world, but there is an addiction with the news to become passive and do nothing. Give CNN to someone in the Middle Ages – tortures, tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, genocide – and that Middle Ages farmer would have an anxiety attack too. There’s never been more or less hell than there is now. There are more people in the world, but there’s never been more or less suffering. There’s just more access to see it. I see a massive globally anxiety attack at the moment.

So why did you make The Rape of Africa?
[Pause] People were offended by that. I said ‘look at it longer’. It’s layered. Take the horror with the beauty. Beauty sustains longer. We’ve all seen enough footage of Daniel Pearl being beheaded. I refuse to watch it. I don’t want that in my head. If you see that then nothing will ever shock you again. I could have shown the real tragedy of what’s happening now in Africa, the real photojournalism, with flies and death and terror and blood diamonds, but that’s not what I do, and that’s not my role, and it’s already on TV and online anyway. I want to look at the horror and tragedy of the world by using beauty. I want to attract, not repel.

There was a rumour that you turned your back on photography to become a farmer.
Well, totally, yes, in some ways. I moved to Maui to renovate a farmhouse. That’s my home now. After Hong Kong I’ll be going back to the farm. It’s off the grid. We have goats and honeybees. We grow fruit and vegetables.

Sounds amazing. Is it an artist’s commune?
It’s more of a nature’s commune. It’s pretty big, 25 acres, and very quiet and private. It’s in the middle of the jungle. A lot of struggling artists come out. Musicians come out. People who need to get away come out. It’s where I go to get my head on and keep the balance in my life. Now I need some peace and quiet, and some balance. And I just love working for galleries.
 

The Raft Exhibiting May 25 - July 2, de Sarthe Fine Art, 8/F, Club Lusitano Building, 16 Ice House Street, Central.

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